Sunday, March 11, 2012

Why Robotech and not Macross?

I was originally going to post this week about the progress in Nod. Nod's infantry was just finished about 2 minutes ago and so I'm now on my way to doing their vehicles. After that we need to do the Nod Super Weapon (I'll give you a hint, we're removing the Liquid Tiberium Bomb and putting something completly new into the spot that will not only be cool if it works but it will also give Nod a huge boost into it's economy when it go's off) and I can move on to the 3 GDI superweapons and economy change and then we're at RC time.

However the question of why Robotech and not Macross came up again so I figured I should reply to it. It's a valid question each time it's asked because simply put we're keeping the Gundam aspects of the original mod why remove the Macross aspects?

What it really came down to was what we could use from the Macross universe (and the direction that Macross keeps taking each time it comes out) vs what we could take from Robotech. By going with Robotech we are able to take the Robotech Defense Force, the Southern Cross, and the Robotech Expeditionary Force and use these armies and their weapons in the game. All 3 armies are different, with different types of weapons and different reasons for exsisting. The RDF uses a lot of aircraft and heavy / slow ground units. The Southern Cross on the other hand uses mostly hover tanks and other faster/more effective ground units while using the air units in a support roll. Finally the REF uses elite, advanced technology and is honestly more of an offensive force than a defensive one.

Also we are able to get access to some of the "enemies" of the Robotech series and use them as well. I use "enemies" loosely, maybe opposing force would be a better word to use. Anyways we get access to the Invid, the perfect enemy to pitch against the Scrin in our story. This makes the story Alien Race vs Alien Race with humanity getting caught unexpectedly in the middle instead of the tired "Alien race appears, kicks our ass's, and then we strike back with a varying degree of success," that happens now days.

Macross on the other hand, well, yea.... Macross gives us the same air units from the RDF basically (Robotech does use Macross's animation after all) but then we move to Macross Plus with the YF19 and YF21. These are some pretty cool advanced fighters. Then we go to Macross 7. Yea. Still using the YF19 are you? Thats great. Next we go to Macross Frontieer. Are those Whales they are fighting in space? Ok, that Macross just did a barrel roll in space to avoid getting shot. How they missed something THAT BIG that is flying STRAIGHT AT THEM I still can't understand, but whatever. Someone used a ton of character points there, only explanation.

So thats why we went Robotech. It simply gives us access to more variety. That and the story of Robotech doesn't end with a 13 year old girl in space singing to whales in her birthday suit. Kinda important.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

What! You don't like Macross just because you were talking about the episodes and movies some kind that stuff. Macross air units can transforming into a air/ground mecha that can able to handle while in the ground and finds another way to sneak into. And they do have some support vehicles that would help them. You know there are difference about the faction between the Robotech and Macross.
Robotech - Continual fighting, use of other compatible technology.
Macross - Peacekeeping, expandable technology, expansion.

Azuza K said...

I'm not sure if your joking or not.

Macross and Robotech start at the same place hardware/equipment wise. Robotech mecha can transform as well.

And you said it yourself, Macross is about peacekeeping (sort of) and exploration. Robotech starts the same way (they ARE called the Robotech Defense Force) and then move to an assault force to counterattack after the first war. This simply gives us more to work with.

And what would you compare the Invid to from Macross? I can't think of a single "opposing force" from Macross that could be turned into an army that would work other than the Zentradi.

Anonymous said...

Well, when I was looking at the Xenoforce Reborn, I might want to come up with an design about the Robotech, Invid, and Macross.

The plan you made for Robotech needs more simple units with weapon equipments, adding more powerful units like mechwarrior, battle tech, and your favorite mechas you like to add. Also, why don't use the SDF-1 to replace from 2, 3, and to SDF-4. Robotech reference and some stuff doesn't help a lot. And this will make Dougbendo happy.

And for Invid, I really want you combining forces with Hydonites, Robotech masters, Protodeviln, Meltlandi, Vajra, Afros, and Secret Cybernetic Cabal. Making combination of forces would able to handle it with an titanium fist punch against Robotech and Macross.

As for Macross, I might find that UltraKiroXei created a NUN Macross, and plus he made it up with another one. I do figuring that how Ultra made concept for some other stuffs. The thing that I pointed out is he decides to add some new units from other mecha games.

Why don't you try to come up with your own faction ideas. Or combine you current forces with another forces. You don't have to look it up any references for left overs or watching videos. It just take time consuming, so make something up.

Oh yeah, I've forgot to put my name on it. After posting my comment. XD

-Alberto

Azuza K said...

I'll take this one at a time. Keep in mind that we have not made any design decisions when it comes to Robotech yet.

1. Why the hell would Robotech have Mech Warrior mechs in it? They are not the same. That seems like putting Big O into the Earth Federation to me.

2. We have not decided what we're doing with the SDF1 or any of them yet. The most we've come up with is that Robotechs bases will be based around SDF's I think.

3. The Invid would not team up with ANY of those forces. Hell, the entire second Robotech war between the Southern Cross and the Robotech masters happened because the Robotech Masters needed more power so they could fight the Invid. The Robotech Masters slaughtered the Invids home world years ago and these two forces are bitter enemies to the end.

4. Ultra is a fan who is making his own game along with keeping tabs and making suggestions for our mod. He is not directly involved with our mod at this point past that. He is kind of like Smoth who does his own game/mod with the spring engine in this aspect.

5. As far as our own ideas go, they are already there. Our ideas are in HOW these forces are deployed, how they play, and how they balance against the other forces in the game.

Personally if I was going to do an original mod (which I will be looking to do one day once this one is done) with all original ideas and models I would not be using the CNC engine to do it. It's a fine engine but my kind of game would be much bigger than this. I would need massive maps like Supreme Commander / Civilization 5 / Empire Earth or even take it a step further and make a mod for a game like Sins of a Solar Empire where you have multiple planets and solar systems to take over.

This mod will be completed though because I want to see the original Xenoforce mod live on, the original is what got me into modding in the first place.

Anonymous said...

1. You just always reject on other people's idea, because of your disagreements, not Doug.

2. Leaving this unplanned Robotech base design is just never have any thoughts.

3. How Invid and Robotech would fight with, even the story goes on.

4. It seems, after I Email with Ultra then he sends back to me, he has some tasks to do to make models before he sends it to Doug. He doesn't make his own games yet. (Remake Models).

5. Some fans do have disagreements, including your models needs to get updated, ideas are shown disagreements of details, and stories does have real plot, but its still just the same with EA's story idea.

Most person in real life does have difficult expectations, causes by, reducing free-time.

-Alberto

Azuza K said...

I what? I do not always reject other peoples ideas that's an asinine comment to make. And to say that Doug doesn't dismiss others ideas and I do is even more preposterous. I am the person who is always on Mod-DB asking for peoples opinions and insights, not Doug. But if you think Doug would agree with your idea then why don't you email him and ask him? I guarantee it won't turn out the way you think it will lol.

We are leaving it unplanned at the moment because it is very far in the future that we will be getting to the Robotech Armies. First we finish EF. Then we do Invid. Then Zeon. Finally RDF/SC/REF. We can make all the plans we want for those factions but truth be told we would spend all of our time planning and non actually doing if we did that. Besides plans change all the time, it's honestly better and easier to plan each faction out just before you start work on said faction not months and years earlier. We know we want them in, and we know we have some models already to use. After that who knows what new models we will get or new ideas will come up between now and then?

We are totally against the idea of "do this cause it would be cool". If someone has an idea that they want, a reason and a story behind why it would happen this way, that makes since, then we will entertain their idea and talk about it. Your idea of all the Robotech opposing forces and Macross opposing forces teaming up to fight the other factions is just not a good idea.

Finally when it comes to our existing models and peoples opinions on them I really could care less. These models are what we have to work with. If someone does not like one of the models that we are using because "it's just too plain or bulky" or whatever the reason thats their issue. I'm not a professional modeler, never claimed to be. Again most of the models have been either donated to us or were free open source models that we could use. A lot of them are from the original mod just brought into this new engine because if we were to try and do it ALL from scratch we would never get anywhere. Also thats why we are only in the ALPHA stage of the game. After we get everything in then we can look at what "filler" models need to be replaced and updated and which ones are good enough to stay the way they are. For example, the RGM 79 model is defiantly a filler model but it does it's job, you can tell what the model is supposed to be and it works just fine. Would you rather I spend a week making a new RGM 79 model or putting Gundam Seed into the mod? Time Management in these situations is important.

Anonymous said...

ROFL, "against the idea of "do this cause it would be cool"". A common quote, I want to find out how the Macross, and Robotech works through mechanics, and balancing systems.

Doug is suppose to be the leader of Xenoforce Reborn Mod developer, then why do you take over on his position?

RGM 79 should be taking less time consuming than putting Seed in the game. However, it depends on whether you made it via 3DS Max 7, or Google Sketch-up. I've just found out that the model you have were only some donated models.

The true question is: what is the purpose of the mod if you guys trying to change any plans and idea.

- Alberto

Azuza K said...

Well unfortunately I can not tell you about the mechanics as like I said we haven't talked much about it yet. What our current "rough idea" is though that you start off with the SDF1 on the ground and then you "repair" it by doing upgrades to it. It works as a regular construction yard for the most part but once you get to your advanced tech level you will have the ability to have the SDF take off and fly again as well as begin constructing "completely human made" SDFs like the SDF2, 3, and so on.

We may make the RDF, the SC, and the REF seperate factions, or a combination of all 3 as a single faction, or make it like we've done the EF. This part has not been discussed. We already have a ton of structures that I can use for the Robotech Structures that to me are very high quality free models.

What ever gave you the idea that Doug was the leader? We used Doug's profile on ModDB to start out on ModDB because he already had one and I didn't. Just like it's my profile that does the Blogger stuff and not his. Neither of us are in charge. I do the coding, the modeling, and the designing. Doug also does the designing as well as he has access to his Robotech Fan podcast and is actually known in the Robotech Community so can get help from them as far as donation of models and stuff. Neither of us are in charge.

Finally, all models are made in 3D Studio Max 8. Thats what I use, and it works fine for me. I've never used Google Sketch-Up, wouldn't even know where to begin there. I'm just used to 3D Max 7, 8, and 9 as these are the only programs that EA has given tools for exporting models into .W3X format (what CNC3 reads).

Anonymous said...

Use the search engine and find it "Robotech 3ds max models"
Or look for the Turbo Squid < 3DS max Models.
You need a find a reliable source other than staying on one of your current source.

No ones a leader, just only you 2, but it will be hard to make things. Try to set up for volunteers so you don't have to get stuck.

One last thing, when the Interview emailed or a online conversation on you and Doug about your Mod. What would you say to the interviewer?

-Alberto

Azuza K said...

I don't understand your concern about our current source of models. And the ones from Turbo Squid are just as varied in their quality as the ones we use now. Finally a lot of the ones we have now are already animated (at least the ones from the original mod are) and that makes it much easier for me at least.

Simply put anything that we don't already have I'll just make myself if we need it.

We prefer it this way as far as just being us two working on the mod. The more people that get involved in an actual capacity the harder it is to work on the mod. Besides Doug and I know each other and trust each other, this makes it easy to work with him as I know what to expect.

Having said that we've gotten a lot of help from the community at large. We've had a lot of models donated to us by Smoth, keyboards on Guitar, DragonsBane22, and a number of other people that off the top of my head I can't remember their names (sorry). On top of which I've gotten a lot of help from the community when it comes to coding from places like CNC3.net. Simply put our progress may be slow moving but it is still moving and thats important. We're not trying to be one of those mod teams that have a big team and show lots of pictures but won't release anything until everything is perfect, we want others to experience the creation process with us and to give us feedback as we go. Just go back and play the original version of the alpha (or even alpha 9) and compare it to what we have now, you'll see the effect the community has had on this mod.

What would I say to an interviewer? Depends on the question, but probably hi. :p Honestly no one has asked to interview us that I'm aware of and I don't know why someone would want to. Our work is not the best out there, I won't pretend it is. However we have continued to evolve and work hard at making our original idea come to life. We could have taken the easy way out of just porting the original xenoforce mod to the cnc3 engine. We could have removed the original 3 factions and make it a total conversion. We could have simply said "We're just doing the normal Gundam UC units, not making a complicated massive subfaction within a faction design" like we did with the EF. But we saw what was there and are simply trying to expand on it in the way that it deserves. We are trying to be as true to the original shows as we can while still giving the players what they want to see.

GP03 would be a good example of this. Technically GP03 shouldn't work in the atmosphere, at least not in the way that it did in the show. It's a space unit. We ended up modifying the unit by giving it ground thrusters to explain how it could work in the atmosphere. This did upset some but most others understood that we were just trying to give the players access to GP03 AND in a way that was logical.

Anonymous said...

Since you can't remember the names you have models from donators. Try to remember either is it from the Email, Username, internet chat, or you got it from the website. Citation is useful as well so you don't have to use memory or leave some notes.

Look for a reliable username who can able to trust you. If any situation is worse. Talk to one of your fans who can still help and work steady, and timing for your mod.

If you don't have a faction plan yet. Try to leave it some planning before you choose to work for each faction design.

Don't show your weakness, and if your skills needs improving, then try looking for extra tutorial and guides.

I guess Its time for me to do some real stuffs right now.

- Alberto

Azuza K said...

Apparently you have not been doing a good job at listening or not been following the Mod very long. We have given plenty of people the ability to prove themselves trust worthy but simply put only a few have actually come through with any sort of real help. I am not being bitter or blaming anyone as this team design works the best for us, if someone wants to help and does something like makes a new model that is better then our old one then we'll use it. If they don't want to do anything then thats fine too, we're not relying on anyones support to get this done we will do what we have to on our own as needed.

It's only weakness if you perceive it as such. I'm being honest and upfront with people on the mod. I do not see that as weak.

Finally you keep coming back to the idea that we must have our entire force designs done before we start work on something. We COULD do that but thats just stupid. New ideas appear all the time, you can just look AGAIN at the old releases and see how things have changed. This ability to change when a new idea is presented gives us a flexibility that we prefer over "No, we designed it this way two years ago so we are going to keep it this way."

Simply put if you can't understand where I am coming from on this I can't help you, have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

(Laughs) It seems you are just completely a discouraged brainless person, than I've expected.

- Alberto

Anonymous said...

This is directed towards Alberto. Since when did you become the highest authority on creating mods. You constantly complain about why things are not done a certain way, or how things are done not according to your preferences. If I can recall, the mod was created to pay homage to the old mod, not for your personal enjoyment. You seem to forget that you are not in charge of the mod. Ideas and help are welcome but not when you are constantly belittling everything that the creators have done. Why is it that you don't give valid reasons as to why certain parts of the mod should be done the way you want them to be done. If you believe that being a dick is going to get something done your way, you obviously have a lot more to learn about life. As for the creator being "Lazy and brainless," that's rather laughable. He takes time out of his day to make this mod for the people. He doesn't get paid to work on this mod, therefore he obviously has a job that takes a good portion of his day. Then he has his personal life. You know the old saying, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." Constantly working on a mod and coming up with ideas way before they are needed end up causing errors with what you currently working on. Just because the mod isn't progressing the way you like it does not mean you have to be an ass about it. If you have something better to say about all of this, then say it. Otherwise GTFO.

-Kunaiswarm

Anonymous said...

Tiberium Essence is better than Xenoforce Reborn :P

- Alberto

Azuza K said...

Cool story bro.

Alan said...

After reading Alberto's second comment i stopped reading his comments and just reading Azusa's.
I just wanted to thank you for removing the Liquid Tiberium Bomb because I hated that super destructive weapon. You definitely made it something to be feared like the original story from EA made it out to be. I am looking forward so much to playing as the re-reconstructed Nod. And personally this is my favorite mod for C&C 3

Anonymous said...

To Alberto
I have to say your one funny little man. You bitch and complain about how we should go about our mod but you don’t even have the proper facts right about the content you like use to use. Case in point putting battletech units in the game. Last time I checked weren’t the most popular mecha in battletech the robotech one! Just so I can school you on your lack of this topic here is a link to robotech mecha that were put into battletech:
http://brianscache.com/unseen/
And if you would like to question what I have to say about robotech mecha being used in the battle tech universe then then check out the lawsuit that Harmony Gold did the fasa over these mecha.
http://www.giovetti.com/paladinstorm/btrobosuit.html
Now I won’t go into the whole story one this but if you are looking to have battetech mecha in the mod then they will be there. You simply cant go around trying to correct what you believe are others mistakes when you don’t even know your facts.
Now to your point of Macross vs robotech. You said “Robotech - Continual fighting, use of other compatible technology. Macross - Peacekeeping, expandable technology, expansion”. But Alberto isn’t that the same thing as saying Robotech is the United States military force and Macross is the United Nations Peace Keeping Force. I mean with your kind of thinking who would what to even play with macross at that point. The problem with macross is simple. Like the UN peace keeping forces it can never get the job done. Your talking about a force that starts of stronger then it ends. Your talking about a peace keeping force where the military pilots get worse as time goes on. But above all your talking about a macross army that never existed.
One agen know your facts before you start trying to correct others. Robotech and macross do not start out at the same point no could they. The macross franchise starts with macross plus, then macross7, then macross zero and then macross frontier. All of those are part of the macross franchise. The Super Dimension Fortress Macross which is what robotech animation is based off of is completely different. That is part of the Super Dimension mecha anime that deals with The Super Dimension Century Orguss and The Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. If you don’t believe me then here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Dimension_Fortress_Macross
So I guy my point is why are you bitch. You say that you want us to put battletech mecha in the game you will have it. You agreed with ryan that both robotech and “macross” started from the same point and working from that logic that must mean that you are wanting us to go with The Super Dimension Fortress Macross show. Witch robotech gives us all of there mecha along with the follow up show to Super Dimension Fortress Macross witch is Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross. Plus you have New Generation that gives you the “macross” Peacekeeping, expandable technology, expansion.
One more thing you talked about Protodeviln, Meltlandi, Vajra, Afros, and Secret Cybernetic Caba. Last time I checked weren’t all of these force defeated in the same way. Weren’t all of them defected through using music. Top that point wasn’t all pop ideal music. So all we would have to do is have the robotech forces bust out the memory matrix on the sdf on know as the eve and the battle is over. To think robotech untold story is all a player would need to take out Protodeviln, Meltlandi, Vajra, Afros, and Secret Cybernetic Caba.
dougbendo

Azuza K said...

Damn Alberto, I thought you said Doug would agree with you and not me. :p

Loser.

marine05 said...

azuza u should help them with vermillan sector that would get it done and u can put gundam in it as well

Anonymous said...

interesting.



Guess sometimes the original story (cue macross here) doesn't always work :3

Azuza K said...

I reall can't help any other projects until this one is done. You should always finish what you start before taking on more work.

Anonymous said...

And to Dougbendo:
"Yo, I juzt wanted to find out whaz takin so damn day useless. all of them are sukz, they suckz!!!! Stop wastin time with that crap and get back to stupiz work! This is stupiz! U suk at more, my friend sayz you guys are suk and ur mod will suk. I think he might be rit."

And heres is a pic i bought in for u:
http://oi46.tinypic.com/2i6z8l3.jpg

becuz U rant all of the our favorite robotech fans includes CaptainJLS and the rest. that y u sukz!

- Alberto (Problem?)